The title “Animals That Trusted You” is loaded. What does it mean to you on a personal level?
So, the title “Animals That Trusted You” in one sense I am referring to human beings as animals. I believe there are an overwhelming majority of human beings that are super well-intentioned or I believe that the overwhelming majority of human beings are extremely goodhearted and they are trusting, they’re good natured and they truly believe in their heart when they are being told well intended things by other people that they perceived to be in power. Sometimes these people in power are simply taking advantage of these kind-hearted individuals these kind-hearted individuals trusted these people in power, saw them as leaders and follow them essentially to sometimes their own demise and I feel that we are seeing this happening definitely now and we’ve seen this happen in the past and unfortunately it will probably keep happening in the future and I just think that it is really a terrible thing for people in power to do. They know what they’re doing to mislead somebody that is well intended and really good-hearted and to steer them in not the best direction and a lot of times these individuals or those people with power doing this to the kindhearted trusting person are only doing this for their own benefit, and I find that quite disturbing.
On the other hand, the title “Animals That Trusted You” came about when thinking about the animals in the world that are being misled by humans that don’t always have the best intentions but animals for some reason still trust these people, so I think that’s the most literal with the phrase “animals that trusted you.” It’s essentially animals that have a very strong trust in other human beings. They trust the human beings to lead them around and they will follow a human being off a cliff if that’s what the human being is telling them to do.
I also think that if you know that you hold that much influential power, then what you do with that power really tells others who you are as a person. Just because you hold that kind of power you really need to take it seriously and take the responsibility seriously and I wish there were more people that would do that. What I mean by this is if you feel like you hold this type of power over others you would think you would want to do kind and loving things with this power, Or at the very least use the power to positively impact or steer somebody in the right direction, and not evil and misleading things but unfortunately some human beings don’t have this approach.
I also think it’s important for others to have their own interpretation of what animals that trusted you means. So, if you hold a different interpretation, I would honestly like to hear other people’s thoughts on what that line means to them.
“Callous” is already out as a lead single. What made that the right track to introduce this era?
I feel like “Callous” was the right track to introduce as the lead single for this album because it sets up, in my opinion, the mood of the album and what people can expect from the album plus I feel like it’s slightly upbeat. It’s very dynamic it’s got cool instrumentation and you can kind of tap your foot to it, it’s kind of like, it reminds me of a song that you can drive to or it’s like later at night and Callous comes on the radio and you’re just driving to it and you’re tapping your hand to it and it’s pretty introspective and it kind of makes you think and the phrase that repeats is “animals that trusted you” so it’s also the title of the album so I felt like that was an important line in the song and that’s kind of how I made the decision on the album title is that line repeating, I feel like that’s very poignant.
“Impoverished Shakedown” is also out now. How does it contrast thematically or sonically with “Callous”?
So, it’s kind of funny you ask that because the album originally was going to be titled Impoverished Shakedown and I was certain that’s what the album was going to be called. I actually asked a couple people that are close and trusting to me about which title they feel sticks out to them personally more and the majority chose animals that trusted you. Thematically Impoverished Shakedown in my mind is essentially asking more and more out of someone that’s already given so much and giving up so much that they really have nothing more to give but you’re still shaking them down you’re still wanting more out of them and these people are already broke they’re hungry they’ve given you everything they’ve had and you’re still shaking them down so that’s the theme. Sonically I would say Impoverished Shakedown is pretty cool because it has so many different parts to it and sonically the guitar that Stafford was able to put down and translate to the song in my opinion is some of his best work. This was one of the quickest songs that we wrote. We wrote the music for the song in a single session it probably took about man, I’m guessing 5 hours and I came up with the lyrics and the melody fairly quickly and then we obviously, you know, took it to the studio it’s on a similar wavelength as Callous but I would say it’s more Rocky and anthemic Callous is more pop rock straightforward alternative rock, whereas Impoverished Shakedown is more introspective alternative rock.
“Nonsense Just Feels So Wrong” arrived April 17. What can listeners expect from that track that they haven’t heard yet?
Yeah, good question so I feel like nonsense just feels so wrong is probably the most personal song on the album and the most minimalistic song on the album but with the most impact in the shortest amount of time. It’s got a cool guitar hook; it’s got multiple different vocal melody lines throughout the song and it kind of ends in a crescendo of harmonies and just cool sounding melodies and lyrics that just keep you guessing. It’s very powerful, very personal and it is actually my guitarist’s favorite song off the album and it’s definitely one of mine. I think it’s one of the songs I am most proud of because again it came to us pretty quickly, I was just kind of sitting there playing the guitar when Stafford was driving to our practice space and he came in the room and he came up with a guitar hook and I think we finished you know that song as well the same night, it just all kind of came together, fairly quickly. It’s honest.
“Sad Song in Your Town” Where does that sit emotionally within the album’s arc?
Sad song in your town was actually written many years ago I think I wrote it all the way back in 2009-ish and it was actually a lot of people’s favorite song when I would play it live and it got requested by people I would say that song and another song I wrote called The Clumsy One and Can’t Steal Soul. So those were probably the three songs that people requested the most. For some reason I just didn’t release it at all and I’m glad I waited. Sad song in your town was definitely a song that, no matter what, it was going to be on this album, I had to release it. I waited way too long but that time since 2009-ish it gave me time to refine some of the lyrics to really understand what direction I wanted to take the song in and it kind of gave me more clarity of where the song needed to sit as far as tempo, as far as pacing if it needed a rock vibe, should I make the song very slow? There was a lot of mixed emotions going through my head before I recorded sad song in your town but ultimately I chose to make it slightly upbeat and more Rocky and Poppy because I feel like, you know, when I listen to that song it’s it is kind of sad but then it’s kind of like happy because at the end of the day you have each other you have someone in your life and where it sits emotionally I think is you know like letting others go, but also making sure they know that no matter what you will be there for them it’s almost like being happy you met each other but also being happy that you are also going to be there for each other and hopefully you don’t just end up a sad song in in their town, you just so you don’t end up as a sad memory, but one of the lyrics I say is “I’ll be around just got to find me when you’re down” it’s kind of like, well I’m not I’m not here, I’m not present but if you just give me a call, I’ll answer and I’ll be able to talk to you and help you out whenever you need it but also, you know, good luck going forward and it was really nice meeting you.
Across the record, you touch on heartbreak, family separation and powerlessness. Which track was the hardest to finish emotionally?
The track that was the hardest to finish emotionally, that’s a tough one to answer. I think emotionally I was having a hard time accepting the words for Wrap Around and it’s only because I was being really vulnerable with that song and I wanted to make sure that the words, and that song that I sang, were as honest is possible and I didn’t want to sugarcoat anything and I suppose hardest to finish emotionally was probably Wrap Around. But at the end of the day it was a relief emotionally also to write because I feel like I got something off my chest in a way, so it’s kind of like a positive thing because I feel like if you have a song that is emotionally draining for you as the artist, it also allows you time to think about it and to process it and to sing out that emotion and it actually can be quite therapeutic and helpful.
You’ve blended alternative rock with electronic and pop elements. How intentional was that evolution in your sound?
I mean it’s 2026. I love how electronic elements sound and I love pop music at its core. I think pop music is just fun. A lot of pop music is written in two to three minute songs and I think it was very intentional that I wrote with electronic and pop elements in mind it’s just what I love in music I tried to take the things that I love in music and also things that I envisioned and try to create a song out of it and this was the album that came out of that and it’s tough because I feel like I do have so many influences and I don’t know hopefully you can hear some of them on this album. Just overall I like too many forms of music to count and almost anything goes when I’m writing. But I would say at its core my album sounds like Indie and alternative rock music.
How did working with high level mixers and mastering at Abbey Road elevate the final product compared to your earlier work?
Asking how it elevated the final product compared to my earlier work. I believe if I hadn’t worked on the few releases and albums I did prior to this, if I hadn’t done any of that then I believe the songs wouldn’t have been as good either way even if I had like say a high-level mixer or Master working on these tracks. I’ve learned so much over the last three releases, and I actually had a couple of high-level people work on you know a few of the songs on the previous 3 releases, you know Michael Brauer, Steve Vealey and I had Joe LaPorta he’s a top mastering engineer. I just think that with time and dedication and if I’m willing to put in the work and I am willing to stay passionate about music I would hope it’s ultimately going to just keep getting better and better. So yeah, Callous and Impoverished Shakedown those two songs were mixed by none other than Adrian Bushby he’s actually worked with bands like Foo Fighters, Muse, he’s even worked with Spice Girls and a band that I really love out of the UK, Everything Everything.
I also had the album recorded by a very talented producer in Minneapolis his name is Owen Sartori, he works out at F5 Sound House so shout out to him as well, he mixed most of the songs on the album and I had another guy out of I believe it was Santa Cruz his name was Math Bishop he’s worked with a few artists that I listened to in the past and respect so one of the artists he’s worked with was a band called Talk Time I just loved what he did with the mixing and he’s also mixed I believe a couple Taylor Swift songs so that doesn’t hurt either. Math ended up mixing “Sad Song in Your Town” on this album.
So when it came to mastering the album mastering is the final process of your completed song it’s kind of like the last audio engineer comes in and makes your sound, sound amazing through a home stereo a giant stereo setup and I actually reached out to Abbey Road Studios to master this album and I was thinking about which artists or which albums I’ve listened to recently that I didn’t question the sound and I kept coming back to Everything Everything’s last album called Mountainhead I also realized Frank Arkwright mastered the Smiths, New Order, Joy Division, Coldplay, Oasis, Snow Patrol, Johnny Marr and I immediately knew I had to have Frank Arkwright master the album and thankfully he agreed to it and honestly he did an incredible job and I don’t know, I’ll probably go back to him again, he’s awesome.
Looking at the full rollout from singles to vinyl and CD, what kind of listening experience do you ultimately want fans to have with this album?
So yeah, this album will be released on Vinyl, CD also any major streaming service. What kind of listening experience do I ultimate want fans to have with this album? I think whatever they prefer that they want to listen to it on, like for me I’ve been getting into vinyl recently I just love the sound and I like being able to hold the record putting it on that platter but ultimately whatever the listener chooses to listen to the album I can only hope that the experience they have with this album is one that they would want to save on their favorites and that they want to share with their family and friends and one that they would come back to and want to listen to it again and hopefully I think about you know some of the messages in the songs and what the songs actually just mean to them because at the end of the day I wrote most of these songs based on what I was feeling and what my guitarist was going through, however you know, whatever the listener is going through I want them to also be able to interpret the feelings in a way that they feel is most closely aligned to what they are going through. So ultimately, I would like for everybody, all walks of life to be able to enjoy this album no matter who they are and no matter what their background or whatever. I just hope that anybody and everybody will find some sort of relationship. I just hope that most people find that they can relate to at least a handful of songs off this album, that would be incredible.
