Music Interviews

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What was the first real image or moment that became “Shampoo” before it ever became a song?

Shampoo came from an emotion I’ve experienced a few times toward the end of a relationship. There is this inconceivable notion that you and your partner will inevitably be intimate with other people, and each time I’ve found that such a scary image. You know that it’s totally acceptable and that there is nothing you can do about it, the commitment that was made between two people is now broken and you just have to accept that. That feeling is where the initial idea for Shampoo was born.

What draws you to that grey area where nothing has fully collapsed yet?

I think the grey area is more interesting. I like to bask in the happy and sad of it all. I don’t think one truly views anything clearly at the beginning or the end. Clarity comes with time and time makes you neutral, so it is easier to admit fault and understand pain.

At what point does intuition tell you a relationship is already over, even when everything on the surface is still functioning?

Most of my breakups have been friendships, which I think are worse than romantic endings. So with that context, in my experience, no two endings of any human relationship are the same. Being blindsided, not wanting to admit it’s over, or being the one to pull the trigger, I think broadly they are all the same. Once it’s over, it’s over.

“Shampoo” turns something ordinary into a trigger for emotional recognition. Why do small details feel more honest to you than big dramatic moments?

The ordinary can be harder to come to terms with than the drama, because sometimes the ordinary operates within helplessness. I’ve been in situations where there is no fixing the fact that two people aren’t meant to exist in each other’s reality forever. Nothing big happens, it just fizzles. Big drama fueled blowouts can generally be fixed because usually someone is in the wrong, but the ordinary lives somewhere so much deeper. I’ve found it hurts much more.

Do you think people recognise endings in real time, or only ever in hindsight like the version described in “Shampoo”?

For me it’s always hindsight. When things end in real time, adrenaline takes over to help you survive. Hindsight gives clarity, and clarity is how you move on.

When you were building this EP, what emotional truth did you feel yourself returning to again and again without trying to?

When I was writing this body of work, I was in this very strange period of my life where my deep relationships were coming and going, and I found it very all consuming. The only way I knew how to deal with it was to write about it. The emotional core of the EP is the title Without You Is Hard. I truly realised how hard life is without friends, family, and love.

The Hospital exists as both a project and a place. How does “Shampoo” expand or change that place emotionally?

The intention with any music I make as The Hospital is for it to be relatable and enjoyable. The point of the name is how healing music is for me. I want it to be a companion for those who need it.

What is something about love or connection that you now understand in a more complicated way than when you started this project?

That love is never a guarantee and it’s not to be taken for granted. I honestly believe you have to love yourself to be loved. This is not to be confused with vanity or ego.

In “Shampoo,” familiarity becomes slightly unsettling rather than comforting. What do you think makes recognition turn that way?

If you get lazy in love, that fire dims. I’ve always found this unsettling because sometimes you don’t see it coming. Life has its own plan for you. I believe you just have to be the best version of yourself for you and others. The rest you can’t control.

If someone listens to “Shampoo” at the exact wrong moment in their life, what do you hope it quietly reveals to them about their own experience?

My music is an offering from me to the listener to share my experience in the hopes they recognise a part of their own story in mine, to feel less alone. I want you to be thinking about your loved ones when listening to my music, not mine.

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What began as a deeply personal diary entry has evolved into one of OH! Daisy’s most emotionally explosive songs yet. With ‘Just Say’, the Melbourne punk outfit pushes further into vulnerability, pairing raw honesty with soaring intensity. We caught up with Bambi O’Kelly, Nick Dordevic and Emma Friday to talk about the song’s origins, Australian gothic visuals, unforgettable live moments and where the band is heading next.

‘Just Say’ began as a diary style piece before evolving into an anthem for anyone who’s felt they had to beg for the bare minimum in a relationship. What was the turning point that transformed it into the song we hear today?

Bambi O’Kelly: There’s a beauty the band have always found in saying the most unhinged thoughts, knowing that someone somewhere will relate. Finding a way of relaying that feeling of craziness and isolation you feel when you’re in that kind of relationship in such a literal, upfront and unsettling way was such an exciting exploration for us. The second we realised that we had to scream that whole chorus the way it feels, with our whole chest, was the moment we knew we’d cracked it.

Bambi, you’ve said, “You shouldn’t need to beg someone for more for the rest of your life.” Was there a specific moment or experience that inspired those words, and how difficult was it to revisit those emotions while writing?

Bambi O’Kelly: I find songwriting and performing incredibly cathartic. It’s been so nice the way this song has allowed me to reflect and heal. Some songs are difficult, and I think this is one of those ones that just flowed out of me. I knew what needed to be done, and I was so glad to get it out of my system.

Your music balances vulnerability with an explosive punk energy. How do you decide when a song needs to be delicate and when it needs to lose control completely?

Nick Dordevic: A big part of approaching our chaotic and heavy energy has been trying to find the right moments to show that side of our sound, but also not relying on it to push us forward. The song really needs to call for the crash out for us to go there, because I feel like that mirrors how these feelings actually come across in our lives. It’s more honest somehow.

Emma, you directed the ‘Just Say’ video yourself. What inspired the Australian gothic aesthetic, and were there any films, photographers or artists that influenced the visual direction?

Emma Friday: Bambi and I got together to brainstorm, and ultimately decided to use a setting that would allow us to explore a visual style that sits outside our genre. A punk band from the city, basically playing these Australian gothic characters intermittently. We used those personas to tell a story, as if the rest of the band were these ghostly spirits, frantically and expressively moving around Bambi, who feels they are pent up with feelings they cannot express.

Personally, my biggest references for the visuals were Picnic at Hanging Rock, Days of Heaven by Terence Malick, the visual universe of Nick Cave, as well as the Australian outback in general. Growing up I spent a lot of time in the Victorian countryside, soaking in both the landscapes and the melancholic, gothic paintings I saw in art galleries.

OH! Daisy has been building a reputation for unforgettable live shows. What’s the wildest or most memorable moment you’ve experienced on stage so far?

Bambi O’Kelly: Recently we did a secret show for our friends and family at The Evelyn Hotel in Fitzroy. It was an opportunity for us to trial our new set in a space that felt safe, and we also used it to showcase and celebrate all of the physical media artists that are a part of our family. It ended up being a huge celebration of everything we have achieved so far, with over 100 people turning up on a secret Tuesday night. I truly believe it was one of the best sets we’ve ever played. It felt crazy to pull that off.

Sappy answer aside, there have also been times where Izzy has played her guitar on the ceiling above the stage and broken her fingers. She’s the real trooper who gives our live shows that rock and roll spirit.

You’ve shared stages with artists like Keli Holiday, DZ Deathrays, Sly Withers, Origami Angel and Cry Club. Which support slot taught you the most about being a band, and why?

Bambi O’Kelly: Earlier in the year we got to jump on a small run of the Playlunch regional shows around Victoria. They have such an electric audience and energy as a band. More than anything, those shows inspired us to leave it all out on stage every set.

As a support band it’s easy to forget that you’re warming up the crowd, and that means you’ve got to sell it. Those crowds were packed into small rooms that felt like arenas, and we wanted to give them a show to match that energy no matter how long we’d driven to get there.

Your debut EP, It’s Okay I’m Ugly Too, tackled themes of insecurity, identity and emotional chaos. How has your songwriting evolved since that release, and what does ‘Just Say’ reveal about where OH! Daisy is heading next?

Bambi O’Kelly: I think if the EP was us baring our skin, Just Say is us showing our guts and bones. It is something even more unhinged and more raw that we’ve been working towards for a long time, and we’re still excitedly exploring that direction in what comes next. It set a new gold standard for us.

There’s a theatrical quality to everything OH! Daisy creates, from the music to the visuals and live performances. How important is storytelling to the band’s identity, and what do you want audiences to feel when they leave one of your shows?

Nick Dordevic: Storytelling is super important to us, but at the same time it can easily overpower a track if you let it. We’ve been focusing on conveying the feelings we want through our music while making sure subtlety remains a priority.

While we don’t shy away from darker and heavier themes, we always want to tell those stories in a relatable and realistic way. We might feel sad, angry and erratic, but that’s just one piece of a fuller picture. Being ourselves on stage and off helps with this, because coming across as the real people we are makes our music feel more genuine.

The chemistry within the band comes across as incredibly natural. Emma has described it as a “quasi psychic connection.” How does that creative relationship work in practice when you’re writing songs or developing concepts together?

Emma Friday: The first thing I noticed about being in this band is that we would often show up dressed in seamlessly complementary outfits without any planning. I laughed it off at first, but after a while the synchronicity of our live playing had me convinced some sort of cosmic fate was at play. It genuinely feels like this is the band I’m meant to be in.

If someone had never heard OH! Daisy before and ‘Just Say’ was the first song they played, what do you hope they would understand about the band by the time the final chorus fades out?

OH! Daisy: We aren’t afraid to show that we care a lot and that this means everything to us.

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When you were writing Belladonna (This Is How You Die), was there a moment where you realised the song had become something much bigger or darker than you originally intended?

Yes… Initially I was a bit scared of the song. I felt like it was too big for me. It felt like we’d created this beast. I was still working myself out as an artist at the time—not that I’m not still figuring that out—but I was very new to making music and I genuinely thought, shit, this is too big. The drums kicking in with that guitar riff were terrifying! It’s not remotely subtle in the least, and that’s scary!

Low-key now, fast forward to the present day, it’s the song I absolutely can’t wait to unleash live. I love that we went there with the sound and that I did it so early on in my career as well. I feel like Lady Gaga would totally approve though, I think, and that is enough for me!

The title feels both beautiful and unsettling. What made you decide to lean into that contrast rather than play it safe?

This is something I say a lot, but honestly it’s just intuition and wherever the muse chooses to take me at the time I’m writing. I’m a vessel and whatever comes through, that’s what I do. I sometimes have an idea, or sonically something can come to mind, and I can write four other songs on top of the same production and I’ll hate all of them. Then, at the end of the day, something will come over me and it’ll all go down the way it’s meant to, and that’s what I’ll record.

With this song, it actually did occur to me that it was unsettling, and I found that exciting.

Was there a particular scene, memory, or person that stayed in your mind throughout the writing process, even if it never made it directly into the lyrics?

Oh okay, straight to the tea! I mean… yes.

This first chapter of my story as an artist really follows an old relationship. Every song, in one way or another, is about that same story. It’s a very star-crossed, huge-heartbreak, to-the-death story that I’ll probably never truly quite get over.

I think the Whiteheart line is probably a good one to point out as something specific. There’s a bar in the city that I’d always venture to with the same person. We’d start our nights there and then end up at 100 different other places. I’ve not been back there since, to be honest. I’ve been in the vicinity of it, but I’ve never gone back. Same with the other bars from that time.

Usually though, I will say that if I am dying to say something in the lyrics that is true to the story, I will move heaven and earth to get it in there. So you’ll generally know from the lyrics—I don’t shy away from it.

What part of this song do you think listeners are most likely to misunderstand on a first listen?

You know, I generally leave it up to the listener to take what they want to take from each of my songs and have it mean something to them in their own way. I try not to correct or influence them on the lyrics.

I suppose something that can be misunderstood from my personal perspective is the intention behind the lyric, “this is how you die.” I’m not, in the literal sense, saying someone is going to “die.” It is a metaphor. Death is something I talk about a lot in my songs, and sometimes it is a double entendre or a metaphor for something else.

Every release teaches an artist something. What did Belladonna (This Is How You Die) teach you about yourself as a songwriter?

To be bold, to be brave, to be myself and to speak up. Belladonna taught me I should say it with my whole chest and stand on it, consequences be damned.

I tend to internalise my emotions a lot. For someone who talks as much as I do, I don’t really get into my emotions. That’s what all my songs give me—they give me the cathartic space to be honest and the solace that comes with that.

If you could sit in a room and watch people react to one line from the song for the first time, which line would you choose and why?

Depends on the people in the room at the time…

Some people might hear the lines in the second verse about Whiteheart and think, oh, she didn’t… And that would honestly be a lot of fun for me. I’m not even going to lie.

The most memorable songs often come from taking creative risks. What was the biggest risk you took with this release?

This whole release and concept was a risk. I was very truthful and specific with the subject matter, for one.

But also, Belladonna needed to be its own thing. It’s not a conventional pop song. I lean into some pretty dark themes and dramatic imagery. My influences come from everywhere—grunge, rock, pop, film, fashion and pop culture—and Belladonna embraces all of that in one song rather than just choosing one lane.

I guess it would’ve been easier to release something “safer,” but this is who I am as an artist and I’m inviting people into my world. I didn’t dilute it to fit expectations, and I truly believe the right audience will connect with it.

How do you know when a song is emotionally honest enough to share with the world rather than just keep for yourself?

You know, that is a good question.

I always forget that I’m releasing these things into the world, so I always get this wave of anxiety before releasing, like I’m letting people into my diary or something.

But then I think, well, if I’m feeling like this, then maybe that’s something other people can see in themselves too. My experience might be personal, but the emotion is universal. I think once you have a song that can stand on its own and also invite other people into the feeling, it should be shared.

If someone discovers your music through Belladonna (This Is How You Die), what do you hope they understand about Sasha Summers before the song ends?

That I’m not really interested in following a formula and that my music is about creating a world, not just releasing songs.

That I am an artist who loves to embrace contrasts. Belladonna lives in this space of darkness and glamour, vulnerability and strength, and also grit and beauty.

So if someone finishes Belladonna and they want to step further into my world, then I’ve done my job.

What excites you most about where your music is heading right now that fans haven’t seen yet?

Sorry, firstly… “fans”? Me?! My 15-year-old self would sob hearing that, let me tell you.

I will say that I am very excited for fans to realise that these songs aren’t just isolated moments in time. With every release, people will begin to put together little connections between the songs, stories and themes.

Right now, they’re just getting to know me and seeing the beginning of the picture. I’m just so excited to invite them deeper into my world.

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How did the idea of turning your inner critic into a character come about, and what did you discover about yourself through that process?

Firstly, I love these questions – they’re so big! I’m wondering how to answer this without giving away all my secrets! The concept of internal characters is something I’ve been thinking about for a while now. I absolutely adore the movie Inside Out, which I think could explain this better than I can, but this song comes from a similar place. A lot of my songwriting explores pieces of my identity a bit more cryptically, but with Alice, I decided it would be fun to quite literally build a character. I imagined my inner critic as a best friend/frenemy, and the song illustrates this dysfunctional partnership story, as though we can never get to the bottom of who’s in charge. We fight like crazy, but deep down, we each need something that the other has to offer.

There’s a real sense of release running through Alice Says. Was there a particular moment in your life that pushed you to stop listening to fear and start trusting your creative instincts?

I would say not one moment, but many little moments, and I definitely still listen to fear a LOT! I think, though, I’ve found that the more I trust, choose and practice creativity, the more comfortable I get with the uncertainty that comes with it. And generally speaking, each time I’ve done something that feels brave and scary, it’s led to something else really magical – so that helps too.

You’ve described the song as a conversation between different parts of yourself. Has your relationship with that fearful voice changed since writing the track?

For sure – in a way, this song was the perspective shift I needed. Rather than fighting, burying or running away from it, I got a bit more curious about why this fear is here, where did it start and what it is teaching me. Somehow, creating a silly character made this much easier to unpack!

The song leans into a much louder, more distorted sound than some of your previous work. What was it like stepping into that more unapologetic side of your artistry?

The most fun!! I have lots of ideas in my head for big, bold, energetic sounds, but because I so often write sitting quietly at the piano with a cup of tea, I’ve struggled to translate that into my songwriting. A very clever mentor suggested I change my environment and try writing with a sense of playfulness, so before I wrote this song, I actually put on some rock songs, jumped around the house a bit, then picked up the guitar. It was very cool to see that if I change my energy beforehand, it can open a different creative door.

Working with Oscar Dawson seems to have encouraged some creative risk-taking. What did he bring to the project that helped unlock the energy of the song?

Oscar is a master translator. I am honestly in awe; it’s a crazy skill. I’m a mostly self-taught musician, and that can feel really limiting when I don’t have the right words or references or technical tools to describe the sounds I’m imagining, or create them myself. Oscar has a really incredible way of understanding how a song should feel in order to deliver its message, whether that’s through words, instruments or energy. This song needed to feel a bit messy and a bit scruffy, which is always a challenge for me as a reforming perfectionist, but through some combination of storytelling, overdrive pedals and amp sims, we unlocked a new level!

You’ve spoken about the original lyrics being far more confrontational. What made you decide that understanding your fears was more important than fighting them?

I think there’s a lot we can learn from our fears. I suppose at the end of the day, they’re just trying to keep us safe, and if we ignore them, they can get more persistent. A lot of my fears are tied up with being a performer, which feels kinda strange when it’s also the thing that I love doing the most. But I’ve found the more I understand where the fear is coming from, the easier it is to keep moving forward – like I’m saying ‘I hear you, but I’m going to do this anyway, and I think it’ll be okay’.

Your songwriting often feels very honest and personal. Do you ever worry about revealing too much of yourself, or has vulnerability become a strength in your creative process?

All the time! But it’s also probably my favourite thing, finding the thread of a feeling, unravelling it, then piecing it back together into something new that’s a little bit raw and maybe a little bit sparkly. I love that vulnerability can create such potent moments of connection and understanding. I’ve felt this myself at concerts when an artist shares something so honest that it rocks you to your core in the best possible way.

So far, it’s always been the songs I’m most nervous to write or share that have led to the most special connections with listeners and audiences, and I think it’s so cool that songs can bring people together like that.

After earning recognition as a Top Global Emerging Songwriter in the Vanda & Young competition, has that validation changed the way you approach writing and releasing music?

More than anything, it has just made me really excited to share everything I’ve been working on. It’s a competition I’ve applied to almost annually since I was a teenager, and it was always a way to keep myself accountable and watch my songwriting grow from year to year. I never had any expectations, but the song I submitted this year is one that felt really, really special – to find out that it resonated so strongly was pretty amazing. I’m now wrangling with wanting to share everything immediately right this second, and wanting to do my bigger vision justice, but it’s a fun time either way.

You first saw Kim Churchill perform as a teenager, and now you’re sharing a stage with him. Does that experience make you reflect on how far you’ve come in your own journey?

It’s a very surreal dream come true moment, for sure. My dad took me to see Kim when he played in my hometown, and it was probably the first time I realised that you could really just go out and forge your own path in music, instead of waiting for some mystical industry person to choose you, and also that there are so many different ways a music career can look. There were a lot of detours for me between then and now, including a long period where I’d stopped playing music altogether, but being able to play alongside Kim now makes me so grateful that I found my way back.

As this single introduces a new chapter in your sound, what excites you most about what listeners are going to hear from you next?

This song is just one piece of a very intricate puzzle I’ve been building for the last few years. There’s definitely still a familiar link back to my old work and writing style, but I’ve been able to explore a new depth in my sound, which has been really fulfilling. I love a good mystery, so I’m probably most excited about getting to reveal little surprises one piece at a time (and perhaps, more characters too!)

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Growing Pains transforms your life story into a theatrical experience. At what point did you realise your journey was powerful enough to become a story for the stage rather than simply another chapter in your career?

When I returned to the stage after a long 4 year battle with mental health issues, I wanted to create a show that was real, raw and connected with the audience on a deep level. Through that, I’d weave life stories in amongst my songs only to be told after the show that I should write a book. The notion almost felt self-indulgent until I started to see the idea more of an exchange of experience and knowledge rather than a “boast”. Writing a book still seems a little premature, so I decided to create a story-telling theatre experience that shares first hand the experiences that have shaped me as a human being.

When developing the narrative for Growing Pains, were there moments from your life that were difficult to revisit because they still carried emotional weight?

Absolutely. I had to dig up parts of my past that I had buried – Traumas battling childhood Leukemia along with my darkest mental health episodes. As hard as it is to share these experiences in the first-person, it’s also helped me to understand myself a little more – Not just the tough stuff but the good!

The production covers everything from childhood fame to personal struggles and reinvention. How did you decide which parts of your story absolutely had to be included and which parts were left out?

It all came down to two questions.. “What do I want people to get out of this?” and “How do I want them to feel?” I knew I didn’t want a surface level nostalgic trip – I wanted people to walk away not only feeling entertained, but inspired and maybe a little bit more understood. I also wanted the emotional journey of the show to reflect the magnitude of life lived. As dark as what it has been, I’ve had some incredibly joyous and wonderous experiences and at times, some hilarious ones!!! (Thank you puberty!).

What was it like seeing your life structured as a story with a beginning, middle and end? Did it change the way you view your own journey?

Doing work on yourself can often involve self-reflection but not like this. Seeing, performing, reliving this part of my life had me pausing many times. Sometimes that pause would be to release emotions like sadness or anger and other times it was a simple, “Damn, I can’t believe I lived that experience??!!!”. Many of us “next” our way through life and rarely take time to sit and reflect on the our lived experiences. It’s profound when you do!

Theatre audiences often connect most strongly with vulnerability. Was there a particular scene or chapter in Growing Pains that pushed you furthest outside your comfort zone as a storyteller?

Definitely the traumas of getting a lumbar puncture as a seven year old. That’s a real tough one to relive on stage and that whole segment ties in with a such a magical and popular memory on TV of me. It’s brutal in the way it reveals the duality between being a performer whilst battling a life threatening disease and the sense of purpose and magic that sparks when those two paths come together.

Music has always been the way you’ve communicated with audiences. How different was it telling your story through spoken word and narrative compared to letting the songs do the talking?

I’ve done lots of workshops, keynotes and shared stories in between songs but this is very different. I’m fully re-living them on stage with the songs used as punctuations not as the base of the show. I won’t lie. I feel more exposed up there than what I ever have.

Many people know Nathan Cavaleri the guitarist, but what side of Nathan the person do you hope audiences discover through Growing Pains?

A side that maybe mirrors in some way themselves. Many of our challenges are exacerbated by the false belief that we are alone with them. But really, we all live our own unique lives but fundamentally, we all have so much in common. I get a lot of comfort out of knowing that I’m not the only one struggling at times, and when wins are felt by others who “get it”, it makes it all the more special!

The show explores some incredibly personal themes, including identity, anxiety and resilience. What conversations are you hoping audiences have on the drive home after seeing the production?

That there are many paths “home” and sometimes the most promoted or even socially accepted way, is not the right one. That possibilities are less limited than what we’re told. For people to see their own challenges as puzzles rather than “wrongs” to battle – How much failure teaches us. Even learning how to laugh again at ourselves! Every time I hear someone’s story, I’m able to self-reflect with a new perspective that opens my world up. I’d love this show to be the catalyst for that!

If someone walks into the theatre knowing nothing about your career, what do you hope they take away from Growing Pains beyond the music itself?

Sorry I blended these two questions together.

After turning your life into a theatre production, did you learn anything new about yourself that surprised you during the creative process?

A few things…. That without realising, I saw myself through the eyes of a small minority who used to put me down. For that reason, I didn’t see or feel the love and therefore assumed, everybody had the same negative opinions about me.

It reaffirms how my pains have been my greatest teacher and that very rarely can we make sense of them until they become memories.

And how courageous I must have been when I was 14 years old, to go on stage in front of the same girls who hijacked my privacy to watch me go to the toilet. Yeah. It’s been long enough that I can tell that story publicly and laugh about it!

GROWING PAINS – THE NATHAN CAVALERI STORY
Tickets available from www.nathancavaleri.com

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The title “Animals That Trusted You” is loaded. What does it mean to you on a personal level?

So, the title “Animals That Trusted You” in one sense I am referring to human beings as animals. I believe there are an overwhelming majority of human beings that are super well-intentioned or I believe that the overwhelming majority of human beings are extremely goodhearted and they are trusting, they’re good natured and they truly believe in their heart when they are being told well intended things by other people that they perceived to be in power. Sometimes these people in power are simply taking advantage of these kind-hearted individuals these kind-hearted individuals trusted these people in power, saw them as leaders and follow them essentially to sometimes their own demise and I feel that we are seeing this happening definitely now and we’ve seen this happen in the past and unfortunately it will probably keep happening in the future and I just think that it is really a terrible thing for people in power to do. They know what they’re doing to mislead somebody that is well intended and really good-hearted and to steer them in not the best direction and a lot of times these individuals or those people with power doing this to the kindhearted trusting person are only doing this for their own benefit, and I find that quite disturbing.

On the other hand, the title “Animals That Trusted You” came about when thinking about the animals in the world that are being misled by humans that don’t always have the best intentions but animals for some reason still trust these people, so I think that’s the most literal with the phrase “animals that trusted you.” It’s essentially animals that have a very strong trust in other human beings. They trust the human beings to lead them around and they will follow a human being off a cliff if that’s what the human being is telling them to do.

I also think that if you know that you hold that much influential power, then what you do with that power really tells others who you are as a person. Just because you hold that kind of power you really need to take it seriously and take the responsibility seriously and I wish there were more people that would do that. What I mean by this is if you feel like you hold this type of power over others you would think you would want to do kind and loving things with this power, Or at the very least use the power to positively impact or steer somebody in the right direction, and not evil and misleading things but unfortunately some human beings don’t have this approach.

I also think it’s important for others to have their own interpretation of what animals that trusted you means. So, if you hold a different interpretation, I would honestly like to hear other people’s thoughts on what that line means to them.

“Callous” is already out as a lead single. What made that the right track to introduce this era?

I feel like “Callous” was the right track to introduce as the lead single for this album because it sets up, in my opinion, the mood of the album and what people can expect from the album plus I feel like it’s slightly upbeat. It’s very dynamic it’s got cool instrumentation and you can kind of tap your foot to it, it’s kind of like, it reminds me of a song that you can drive to or it’s like later at night and Callous comes on the radio and you’re just driving to it and you’re tapping your hand to it and it’s pretty introspective and it kind of makes you think and the phrase that repeats is “animals that trusted you” so it’s also the title of the album so I felt like that was an important line in the song and that’s kind of how I made the decision on the album title is that line repeating, I feel like that’s very poignant.

“Impoverished Shakedown” is also out now. How does it contrast thematically or sonically with “Callous”?

So, it’s kind of funny you ask that because the album originally was going to be titled Impoverished Shakedown and I was certain that’s what the album was going to be called. I actually asked a couple people that are close and trusting to me about which title they feel sticks out to them personally more and the majority chose animals that trusted you. Thematically Impoverished Shakedown in my mind is essentially asking more and more out of someone that’s already given so much and giving up so much that they really have nothing more to give but you’re still shaking them down you’re still wanting more out of them and these people are already broke they’re hungry they’ve given you everything they’ve had and you’re still shaking them down so that’s the theme. Sonically I would say Impoverished Shakedown is pretty cool because it has so many different parts to it and sonically the guitar that Stafford was able to put down and translate to the song in my opinion is some of his best work. This was one of the quickest songs that we wrote. We wrote the music for the song in a single session it probably took about man, I’m guessing 5 hours and I came up with the lyrics and the melody fairly quickly and then we obviously, you know, took it to the studio it’s on a similar wavelength as Callous but I would say it’s more Rocky and anthemic Callous is more pop rock straightforward alternative rock, whereas Impoverished Shakedown is more introspective alternative rock.

“Nonsense Just Feels So Wrong” arrived April 17. What can listeners expect from that track that they haven’t heard yet?

Yeah, good question so I feel like nonsense just feels so wrong is probably the most personal song on the album and the most minimalistic song on the album but with the most impact in the shortest amount of time. It’s got a cool guitar hook; it’s got multiple different vocal melody lines throughout the song and it kind of ends in a crescendo of harmonies and just cool sounding melodies and lyrics that just keep you guessing. It’s very powerful, very personal and it is actually my guitarist’s favorite song off the album and it’s definitely one of mine. I think it’s one of the songs I am most proud of because again it came to us pretty quickly, I was just kind of sitting there playing the guitar when Stafford was driving to our practice space and he came in the room and he came up with a guitar hook and I think we finished you know that song as well the same night, it just all kind of came together, fairly quickly. It’s honest.

“Sad Song in Your Town” Where does that sit emotionally within the album’s arc?

Sad song in your town was actually written many years ago I think I wrote it all the way back in 2009-ish and it was actually a lot of people’s favorite song when I would play it live and it got requested by people I would say that song and another song I wrote called The Clumsy One and Can’t Steal Soul. So those were probably the three songs that people requested the most. For some reason I just didn’t release it at all and I’m glad I waited. Sad song in your town was definitely a song that, no matter what, it was going to be on this album, I had to release it. I waited way too long but that time since 2009-ish it gave me time to refine some of the lyrics to really understand what direction I wanted to take the song in and it kind of gave me more clarity of where the song needed to sit as far as tempo, as far as pacing if it needed a rock vibe, should I make the song very slow? There was a lot of mixed emotions going through my head before I recorded sad song in your town but ultimately I chose to make it slightly upbeat and more Rocky and Poppy because I feel like, you know, when I listen to that song it’s it is kind of sad but then it’s kind of like happy because at the end of the day you have each other you have someone in your life and where it sits emotionally I think is you know like letting others go, but also making sure they know that no matter what you will be there for them it’s almost like being happy you met each other but also being happy that you are also going to be there for each other and hopefully you don’t just end up a sad song in in their town, you just so you don’t end up as a sad memory, but one of the lyrics I say is “I’ll be around just got to find me when you’re down” it’s kind of like, well I’m not I’m not here, I’m not present but if you just give me a call, I’ll answer and I’ll be able to talk to you and help you out whenever you need it but also, you know, good luck going forward and it was really nice meeting you.

Across the record, you touch on heartbreak, family separation and powerlessness. Which track was the hardest to finish emotionally?

The track that was the hardest to finish emotionally, that’s a tough one to answer. I think emotionally I was having a hard time accepting the words for Wrap Around and it’s only because I was being really vulnerable with that song and I wanted to make sure that the words, and that song that I sang, were as honest is possible and I didn’t want to sugarcoat anything and I suppose hardest to finish emotionally was probably Wrap Around. But at the end of the day it was a relief emotionally also to write because I feel like I got something off my chest in a way, so it’s kind of like a positive thing because I feel like if you have a song that is emotionally draining for you as the artist, it also allows you time to think about it and to process it and to sing out that emotion and it actually can be quite therapeutic and helpful.

You’ve blended alternative rock with electronic and pop elements. How intentional was that evolution in your sound?

I mean it’s 2026. I love how electronic elements sound and I love pop music at its core. I think pop music is just fun. A lot of pop music is written in two to three minute songs and I think it was very intentional that I wrote with electronic and pop elements in mind it’s just what I love in music I tried to take the things that I love in music and also things that I envisioned and try to create a song out of it and this was the album that came out of that and it’s tough because I feel like I do have so many influences and I don’t know hopefully you can hear some of them on this album. Just overall I like too many forms of music to count and almost anything goes when I’m writing. But I would say at its core my album sounds like Indie and alternative rock music.

How did working with high level mixers and mastering at Abbey Road elevate the final product compared to your earlier work?

Asking how it elevated the final product compared to my earlier work. I believe if I hadn’t worked on the few releases and albums I did prior to this, if I hadn’t done any of that then I believe the songs wouldn’t have been as good either way even if I had like say a high-level mixer or Master working on these tracks. I’ve learned so much over the last three releases, and I actually had a couple of high-level people work on you know a few of the songs on the previous 3 releases, you know Michael Brauer, Steve Vealey and I had Joe LaPorta he’s a top mastering engineer. I just think that with time and dedication and if I’m willing to put in the work and I am willing to stay passionate about music I would hope it’s ultimately going to just keep getting better and better. So yeah, Callous and Impoverished Shakedown those two songs were mixed by none other than Adrian Bushby he’s actually worked with bands like Foo Fighters, Muse, he’s even worked with Spice Girls and a band that I really love out of the UK, Everything Everything.

I also had the album recorded by a very talented producer in Minneapolis his name is Owen Sartori, he works out at F5 Sound House so shout out to him as well, he mixed most of the songs on the album and I had another guy out of I believe it was Santa Cruz his name was Math Bishop he’s worked with a few artists that I listened to in the past and respect so one of the artists he’s worked with was a band called Talk Time I just loved what he did with the mixing and he’s also mixed I believe a couple Taylor Swift songs so that doesn’t hurt either. Math ended up mixing “Sad Song in Your Town” on this album.

So when it came to mastering the album mastering is the final process of your completed song it’s kind of like the last audio engineer comes in and makes your sound, sound amazing through a home stereo a giant stereo setup and I actually reached out to Abbey Road Studios to master this album and I was thinking about which artists or which albums I’ve listened to recently that I didn’t question the sound and I kept coming back to Everything Everything’s last album called Mountainhead I also realized Frank Arkwright mastered the Smiths, New Order, Joy Division, Coldplay, Oasis, Snow Patrol, Johnny Marr and I immediately knew I had to have Frank Arkwright master the album and thankfully he agreed to it and honestly he did an incredible job and I don’t know, I’ll probably go back to him again, he’s awesome.

Looking at the full rollout from singles to vinyl and CD, what kind of listening experience do you ultimately want fans to have with this album?

So yeah, this album will be released on Vinyl, CD also any major streaming service. What kind of listening experience do I ultimate want fans to have with this album? I think whatever they prefer that they want to listen to it on, like for me I’ve been getting into vinyl recently I just love the sound and I like being able to hold the record putting it on that platter but ultimately whatever the listener chooses to listen to the album I can only hope that the experience they have with this album is one that they would want to save on their favorites and that they want to share with their family and friends and one that they would come back to and want to listen to it again and hopefully I think about you know some of the messages in the songs and what the songs actually just mean to them because at the end of the day I wrote most of these songs based on what I was feeling and what my guitarist was going through, however you know, whatever the listener is going through I want them to also be able to interpret the feelings in a way that they feel is most closely aligned to what they are going through. So ultimately, I would like for everybody, all walks of life to be able to enjoy this album no matter who they are and no matter what their background or whatever. I just hope that anybody and everybody will find some sort of relationship. I just hope that most people find that they can relate to at least a handful of songs off this album, that would be incredible.

LINKTREE

There’s a strong sense on this EP of adulthood being peeled back, almost like you’re trying to get back to something lighter or more instinctive. How intentional was that in the writing?

I truly believe that a song quietly draws on our subconscious as it is being written, the melody, the rhythm, and the words alike. Without realizing it, I imprinted a carbon copy of the state of my soul onto these very latest songs. And when I listen to them again, it seems they call for a return to the naive and magnificent enthusiasm I felt as a teenager. So no, it wasn’t intentional, but what a great surprise!

Do you feel like this record is exposing things you might have kept buried earlier in life, or is it more like you’ve stepped into a completely new chapter and left that framing behind?

Events, people, and places have shaped who I am. It took me time to navigate life’s challenges, to learn to express my feelings, and to sort through them, so that I could finally do justice to these people and places in my writing, and thus pay tribute to them through this record. I owed them this music. I must admit that I also owed it to myself.

That idea of bottling a very specific moment in 1989, those couple of hours, how do you even begin to translate something that precise and fleeting into sound without it becoming abstract?

Music has that power: the power to evoke a scent, a memory, an indelible emotion, without trying to replicate it. In the middle of the summer of 1989, at just 15 years old, I deliberately slipped away from my parents’ watchful eyes and left the hotel to stride proudly up 7th Avenue, my Sony Sports Walkman on my ears. I was from a tiny town in southwestern France; imagine what a huge shock it was! The world was mine for two hours. You never forget a moment like that. And like a junkie, I’ve spent my whole life looking for a way to relive it. It was definitely worth a song. I dedicate “Manhattan 89” to that fearless kid we all used to be, the one we should never let be silenced within ourselves.

“Terry” has its own emotional weight, especially knowing you sent it to Terry Reid while he was still alive and unwell. When he responded, what stayed with you most, and did it change what the song meant to you after that?

Terry Reid was a genius, a tremendous artist, and a wonderful man. He was a giant, and yet instead of intimidating you, he gave you wings. In fact, he was the first to give me wings. I was lucky enough to work with him, to get to know him and his loved ones well, until we became friends. We even had plans to work on his new album together.

I wrote and recorded this song, “Terry,” before he became seriously ill last year, and I sent it to him a month before he passed away. It was absolutely essential that he heard it, that he knew, through the music, that I loved him and that I was grateful to him. He was very moved by it, just as I still am right now as I am answering your question.

“Terry” has become a bridge between us, the kind of bridge we hope will last forever. Music can do that, too.

There’s also this quiet thread of your grandmother running through the record, not overt, but always there. Did that presence shift how you approached tone or instrumentation at all, even subconsciously?

As for the track “So Long,” the image of my grandmother immediately came to mind as soon as I played the first few chords on the piano. She passed away a long time ago now. But I can still feel her presence. Especially in moments of uncertainty, when the coin could land either way. She still helps me, just as she always did.

During the last years of her life, I wasn’t there for her as I should have been. Today, I am finally engraving my love for her.

And then you’re in the Hotel Chelsea, recording piano in a space that already carries so much history. Do you feel like the room dictated anything in the performance, or were you trying to shut that out completely?

It happened one day in the summer of 2024 in New York (much like a certain summer of ’89). My girlfriend and I had decided to visit the Hotel Chelsea, where so many legends and artists of all kinds had lived for decades. The hotel was still under renovation, but we were able to go inside.

You might think I’m crazy, but I immediately sensed something unusual; I could almost hear whispers coming down the monumental staircase. At the end of the hallway stood an old upright piano. I sat down at it, mechanically, naturally. The hallways were empty. Well, empty, not really.

I really felt a peaceful presence right over my shoulder, guiding my hands across the keyboard. So I started playing, improvising some chords and a melody, while my girlfriend was filming the scene. The piano you hear on the track “Hotel Chelsea” is the very same piano recorded inside the Hotel Chelsea that day, perhaps with a little help from some friendly ghosts…

You’ve moved between some pretty different worlds sonically and geographically, Iceland, Nashville, Paris, New York. At what point do those places stop being “influences” and start becoming part of the actual writing process?

Ever since I was a child, I’ve always felt the need to set out on adventures. I grew up surrounded by nature, with the ocean on one side and the forest on the other, between two endless horizons. The need to discover what lay at the far end of each has always driven me.

And then music became my vehicle, almost my excuse, to go further and bring back a personal and unique souvenir: an album, a song, a lesson learned, a story.

The shift between recording in Paris with Antoine Delecroix and then finishing in New York with Fred Kevorkian, did that distance help clarify the emotional tone of the record, or complicate it?

It felt very natural and rewarding. This record needed to go through that journey to refine itself. Antoine and I created the sound, and Fred took it to the next level. We always come back from an epic trip better than before, and so does the music.

Your last EP, the first chapter of La Vie, set a very specific emotional frame. Where does this second part sit in relation to it, is it answering it, breaking away from it, or something else entirely?

Since it’s sung in English this time, “La Vie Side B” is more like a postcard you send to yourself from a faraway land. It is both hopeful and nostalgic. When you receive it, it makes you feel good. And later, when you read it again, it feels the same.

And on a simpler note, what’s it like knowing people are connecting so deeply to something you’ve deliberately kept so quiet and restrained?

It’s magical. It’s rare and fragile. It’s what AI tries to replicate every day, with no real chance of ever truly succeeding. We live, we suffer, we pick ourselves up, we write to feel better, and if it’s sincere, if it’s human, if it’s the fruit of our own labor, and if the stars align, then maybe the music manages to touch someone else.

It happens to me sometimes, and it fills me with joy and gratitude every single time.

Tracklisting

Manhattan 89 (4:35)

Terry (3:35)

So Long (2:32)

Hotel Chelsea (2:05)

WEBSITE

How much of your new track Medicinal Liquor came from lived experience versus character-driven storytelling, and where do you personally draw that line when writing?

For Medicinal Liquor, pretty much all of it was drawn from personal experiences and emotions. I’ve always been drawn to writing with imagery and metaphor because it helps communicate a feeling without having to spell out every detail.

As for where I draw the line, I don’t think I’ve reached it yet. There are definitely things I’ve chosen to disguise or soften through storytelling, but the emotions behind the music are real. Even when the details become more artistic, the feeling I’m trying to convey is always honest.

There is a tension in the track between emotional collapse and control. Was that contrast intentional from the beginning, or did it reveal itself naturally as the song developed?

A bit of both. At this stage in my life, I’ve become a very different person to the one who was experiencing a lot of the things talked about in the song. Medicinal Liquor is a showcase of both the struggle and the growth that came from it. The emotions are real, but so is the strength that was built by going through them.

The production feels immersive without becoming over polished. How important is it for you to leave imperfections in your music?

Funny enough, there’s actually a small audio glitch right at the start of the song that I decided to leave in. It almost sounds like a record player starting up, and at some point I stopped hearing it as a mistake and started hearing it as part of the atmosphere.

I record all of my vocals in my room rather than a studio because that’s where I can really immerse myself in a song emotionally instead of chasing perfect takes. For me, it’s about finding a balance. I want the music to sound polished, but not so polished that it loses its character.

When you are writing under the name Mr Elusive, do you feel like you are stepping further into yourself, or creating distance from who you are away from music?

It’s a bit of both. On one hand, writing as Mr Elusive allows me to go deeper and give a voice to thoughts and emotions that don’t always make it to the surface in everyday life. A lot of the music comes from places I probably wouldn’t express as openly in a normal conversation.

At the same time, Mr Elusive feels like the side of me that normally stays hidden. It’s not a character, but more a part of my personality that gets brought into the light through music. In a way, it’s the elusive side of me becoming visible, with each song acting as a piece of that picture.

A lot of independent artists talk about the pressure to release music constantly. Did Medicinal Liquor come together naturally, or was this one of those tracks you kept pulling apart and rebuilding?

Medicinal Liquor actually came together pretty naturally, which isn’t always the case. Some songs get pulled apart and rebuilt over and over again, but this one felt like it knew what it wanted to be from early on.

That said, I definitely feel the pressure that comes with being an independent artist in a world that moves so quickly. A big reason I stepped back from releasing for a while was to focus on improving the music and building a bit of a vault of songs. That way I could stay consistent with releases while still having time to work on new ideas. You’ll definitely be seeing a lot more of me moving forward.

The atmosphere of the track feels almost cinematic. Were you deep in any particular headspace while making this one?

I’m glad you felt that because it was slightly intentional. I wanted the song to feel almost like a movie trailer, where every scene is building tension and emotion towards something bigger.

The very first line actually came out raspier than I had planned, but the second I heard it back I knew it was right for the song. It felt like it captured the atmosphere perfectly and set the tone for everything that followed.

A lot of the headspace behind the track came from a particular chapter in my life. There was a lot of raw emotion that surfaced while writing it, and in a way the song became a trailer for that chapter of my story.

Do you think audiences are connecting more deeply with emotionally complicated music now because everything else online feels so curated and overstimulated?

I think once people find it, then yes. Some people are perfectly happy where the algorithms take them, while others are actively searching for something that feels a bit more raw, real and emotionally complicated.

Life naturally moves up and down, and when people hit those lower moments, music can give them a place to sit with what they’re feeling. Everyone experiences those moments at some point, and I think that’s why songs that come from a genuine place continue to connect with people regardless of trends.

What part of the song took the longest to get right, and was there a specific moment where you realised the track was finished?

The chorus definitely took the longest to get right. The verses came together pretty naturally, but I knew the song needed something stronger to tie everything together and I couldn’t quite figure out what it was.

Then my dad randomly mentioned “Copperhead Road” by Steve Earle during a phone call and it instantly unlocked the missing piece. I remember cutting the conversation short because I wanted to get back to recording before I lost the idea.

That was probably the moment I knew the song was finished. Once the chorus clicked, everything felt like it belonged together.

There is a real sense of restraint throughout Medicinal Liquor. Did you ever feel tempted to make the track bigger, louder, or more commercially direct?

I wasn’t really thinking about restraint consciously, but I was trying to serve the song. There were definitely things I could have added, but sometimes what you leave out is just as important as what you put in.

As an independent artist building momentum right now, what do you think people misunderstand most about the reality of making and releasing music in 2026?

I think people underestimate just how much goes into being an independent artist today. It’s a lot more than writing songs and jumping on stage. It genuinely feels like having two full-time jobs because there are so many different skills you need to develop if you want to turn it into a career.

There’s the creative side of writing, recording and releasing music, but then there’s also everything that comes with building an audience around it. Social media, content creation, marketing, networking and all the moving parts in between. The list never really ends, and all of those industries are constantly changing.

My friends and family have pretty much gotten used to the same answer whenever they ask what I’ve been up to: grinding.

What was the first spark that led to writing “i cant believe it” and how quickly did the song come together once the idea landed?

The first spark that kicked this song off was we wanted a song that would punch you in the face straight away but it needed to have the story to go along with it I (Mitch) had some lyrics in my phone about a situation ship I was in and kinda spiraled into that for inspo.

The track explores the confusion of a love triangle. Was it important for you to show both the excitement and the emotional fallout at the same time?

Yes it was important because we wanted the song to be from one persons perspective creating a song for the friend zoned lovers out there, the people that find themself caught between friendship and someone they love.

There is a real balance in your music between polished synth pop and raw indie rock energy. How have you developed that sound as a band?

Honestly by watching some of our influences doing it like The 1975 , The Rions, Holly Humberstone they all have amazing balance of synth pop with indie rock. I guess for us it comes from our love for the British Pop Rock Scene and the blend they have mastered over the years and adding our Aussie taste onto it.

“i cant believe it” feels huge and festival ready while still sounding personal. How do you approach writing songs that connect on both levels?

Sheesh I mean festival ready sounds like music to our ears! I guess it all starts in the writing process for Me I grew up writing and singing country music and I feel like my story telling and what I choose to write about stems a lot from that but then also being aware with what sounds good in modern music today and people just wanna dance and belt there hearts out in the car.

Your live shows have built a strong reputation across the east coast. What do you think people remember most after seeing a Colleen Ave set?

This is actually something we’ve put quite a lot of thought into actually so for one of our songs “Shit Shower” we have a old telephone that we have turned into a mic and that’s a big crowd favorite at the shows bc I do a little skit before I then answer the ringing phone and start singing the opening lines we always value bringing an unforgettable show first and those “pull your phone out” moments.

Looking back at Space For You and your earlier singles, where do you feel the biggest growth has happened creatively?

Definitely how we write music now, before it was more individual for example someone in the band would write a song they would finish the song then all of us learn our parts. Now it’s a lot more sessions together not only writing a song together as a band but also coming up with all of our parts together bouncing ideas off each other. Its been a big difference in the quality of our new tunes.

Queensland has such a strong independent music culture. How has your local scene influenced the way Colleen Ave operates as a band?

I remember coming to Brisbane for the first time and it’s daunting because it’s a big city but everyone has your back in the community here in Brisbane. Big thing for us and how we like to operate is trying to be as local as possible weather that be the music distributor we go through (G.Y.R.O.) and also where we get merch (Slosh Printing) all local.

Launching your own festival with Hair of the Dog is a massive step. What inspired you to create something that supports other Australian artists as well as your own music?

Well the answer is as simple as more opportunity. To think that we have now hosted two hair of the dog festivals and the 1st went from Indooroopilly Hotel to the The Triffid was insane, us as a band and the size that we are would never of thought of playing at the Triffid unless it was for opening for someone yet the first time we played there was for a festival completely independently ran by us is a dream come tru honestly and so amazing for the community and local music scene to have a reason to play on a stage like The Triffid.

When you are putting together new music, do lyrics usually come first or does the atmosphere and production shape the story?

This is a great question and normally id say lyrics but now days ill say the atmosphere and production bc that’s what gets my creative juices going is a vibe and foundation being solid then letting that vibe take the song where it needs to go.

With “i cant believe it” out in the world and momentum building around the band, what feels like the next big goal for Colleen Ave?

The next big goal for Colleen Ave is to sell out a tour having people listen and love the music that we’ve created and have that spread all over Australia and the world is so special and to feel that impact you could have on people will be special.

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